Law School Discussion

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my safest safety has

75th %ile lsat 2-4 points below mine
 25 (37.9%)
75th %ile lsat 5-7 points below mine
 12 (18.2%)
75th %ile lsat over 8 points below mine
 18 (27.3%)
75th %ile lsat less than 2 points below mine
 11 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 46

Author Topic: safety stats  (Read 11252 times)

!@#$%

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Re: safety stats
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2004, 08:25:15 AM »
kgd, what is the story behind your avatar?

casino

Yeah, it kind of freaks me out everytime I see it, like there's some sort of subliminal message with it.

It was the second half of an email I got one time.  The subject was: This is a tough one!

Body of the message: This is a simple psychoanalitic test to measure your memory. Open the first superman picture. Memorize it and open the second. Without reopening the first try to note each of the differences between the two pictures. There are at least three. If you can find five or more, you are of above average intelligence.

(Being the sucker that I am, I went for it.)

Pic 1: http://www.garrettwalker.com/today_at/content/images/superman-2.jpg
Pic 2: http://www.garrettwalker.com/today_at/content/images/superman2-2.jpg

casino

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Re: safety stats
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2004, 08:57:13 AM »
uhhhh, i don't think it is that hard to point out more than five differences though.  if you know what i mean?

casino

BAFF213

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Re: safety stats
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2004, 11:48:57 AM »
I'm trying to apply to as many GPA whores as possible.  I'm definitely avoiding the LSAT whores...

What schools do you consider to be GPA whores?  I heard that about Boalt, but I don't think I can go to Cali.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~030116/prelaw/lawschools00.htm

DouperLou

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Re: safety stats
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2004, 01:47:52 PM »
I'm trying to apply to as many GPA whores as possible.  I'm definitely avoiding the LSAT whores...

What schools do you consider to be GPA whores?  I heard that about Boalt, but I don't think I can go to Cali.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~030116/prelaw/lawschools00.htm

I think the table on that webpage is wrong. The guy who built that said that he took out the constants, but he didn't. The LSAT has a constant built into it as well: everyone gets a free 120 points - its really only worth up to 61 points for practical purposes (120 to 180). He uses American U. as an example to show the calculation that weighs GPA at 15%, but it is much higher:

0.576 * 61 + 4.58 * 4.0 = 53.456

18.32/53.456 = 34.27% <-- this is the real American U. GPA %

It pretty much makes his spreadsheet useless and it has to be reflowed to make any sense.

-lou

edit: i just read the webpage authors response to this criticism but he answers it all wrong, imo.

absy

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Re: safety stats
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2004, 02:36:25 PM »
Wouldn't you say that for most intents and purposes, the UGPA only varies by 2.0?  Sure, it's possible to get below a 2, but I believe a 2 is necessary to graduate.  That would make a bit of difference as well.

BAFF213

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Re: safety stats
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2004, 02:59:34 PM »

http://www.uiowa.edu/~030116/prelaw/lawschools00.htm

I think the table on that webpage is wrong. The guy who built that said that he took out the constants, but he didn't. The LSAT has a constant built into it as well: everyone gets a free 120 points - its really only worth up to 61 points for practical purposes (120 to 180). He uses American U. as an example to show the calculation that weighs GPA at 15%, but it is much higher:

0.576 * 61 + 4.58 * 4.0 = 53.456

18.32/53.456 = 34.27% <-- this is the real American U. GPA %

It pretty much makes his spreadsheet useless and it has to be reflowed to make any sense.

-lou

edit: i just read the webpage authors response to this criticism but he answers it all wrong, imo.


I don't know, I haven't really looked at his statistical methods, although I did notice that someone had critiqued them on an earlier thread.  The table appears to be somewhat correct, in that it shows Boalt and UNC as giving some of the highest weights to GPA, so I think it may be somewhat useful.

DouperLou

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Re: safety stats
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2004, 04:11:31 PM »

http://www.uiowa.edu/~030116/prelaw/lawschools00.htm

I think the table on that webpage is wrong. The guy who built that said that he took out the constants, but he didn't. The LSAT has a constant built into it as well: everyone gets a free 120 points - its really only worth up to 61 points for practical purposes (120 to 180). He uses American U. as an example to show the calculation that weighs GPA at 15%, but it is much higher:

0.576 * 61 + 4.58 * 4.0 = 53.456

18.32/53.456 = 34.27% <-- this is the real American U. GPA %

It pretty much makes his spreadsheet useless and it has to be reflowed to make any sense.

-lou

edit: i just read the webpage authors response to this criticism but he answers it all wrong, imo.


I don't know, I haven't really looked at his statistical methods, although I did notice that someone had critiqued them on an earlier thread.  The table appears to be somewhat correct, in that it shows Boalt and UNC as giving some of the highest weights to GPA, so I think it may be somewhat useful.

Your point is well taken. I'm not disputing the fact that the LSAT is weighted higher than GPA or vice-versa at some schools. I'm just saying that his methods are out of line. I think that the relative differences in the percentages are what you should look at and not the percentages themselves, which (imo) are incorrect.


DouperLou

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Re: safety stats
« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2004, 04:18:26 PM »
Wouldn't you say that for most intents and purposes, the UGPA only varies by 2.0?  Sure, it's possible to get below a 2, but I believe a 2 is necessary to graduate.  That would make a bit of difference as well.

With your logic we could also say that the LSAT only varies by 30 and not 60, from 150-180. Lets face it, there aren't many people below 150 that are at all strong applicants. I'll give you the fact that the UGPA only varies 2.0, but then you have to admit the LSAT only varies 30. Cut both in half and my contention is just as true mathmatically. Hey, i realize its not set in stone or anything, i'm just saying that the percentages themselves are too low and perhaps their better use is relative to one another (see my previous post to BAFF).


absy

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Re: safety stats
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2004, 04:40:58 PM »
At the very most, GPAs vary by 3 points.  I would feel safe to bet that no more than 5 people with below a 1.0 GPA even take the LSAT.

Since I like playing with numbers (and procrastination even more), here's a small table of the top 15 schools that use a formula (I'm using one more updated than on the website).  I've included percentages based on two-point and three-point variation in GPA:

School            2p       3p 
Berkeley        46.9    57.0
Columbia     28.9    37.9
Cornell          25.2    33.5
Duke               32.5    41.9
Stanford        25.9    34.4
UT                   33.0    42.5

Bisquick

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Re: safety stats
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2004, 04:50:36 PM »
Wouldn't you say that for most intents and purposes, the UGPA only varies by 2.0?  Sure, it's possible to get below a 2, but I believe a 2 is necessary to graduate.  That would make a bit of difference as well.

With your logic we could also say that the LSAT only varies by 30 and not 60, from 150-180. Lets face it, there aren't many people below 150 that are at all strong applicants. I'll give you the fact that the UGPA only varies 2.0, but then you have to admit the LSAT only varies 30. Cut both in half and my contention is just as true mathmatically. Hey, i realize its not set in stone or anything, i'm just saying that the percentages themselves are too low and perhaps their better use is relative to one another (see my previous post to BAFF).



If you are going by that logic, you need to say the GPA varies by 1.0.  totalbs is correctly pointing out that you can't graduate without a 2.0 and you can't even be considered for most of these schools without a degree.  If you only take the LSAT from 150-180, you need to take GPA from 3.00-4.00.  I'd be ok with 120-180 and 2.00-4.00.  Unless someone is willing to figure out a distribution curve for each of these schools, we are never really going to get any more than a rough approximation.

Regardless, I redid the spreadsheet basing it on a range of 60 on the LSAT and a 2.0 range on GPA and nothing came out drastically different.  The percentages changed but (as you stated) the relative rank stays the same.
3.8/155