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Author Topic: Law Firm 'Aggressive Racial Preferences'  (Read 10790 times)

poochy95

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Law Firm 'Aggressive Racial Preferences'
« on: June 22, 2006, 05:01:52 PM »
This is my first post, and I found this article interesting:
 http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/leoblog/archives/060620/law_firms_and_the_downside_of.htm

I have no intentions of inciting an online debate, but I could care less.  Actually, post some acerbic diatribes; online fights of all partisanships humor me.  I also want to pop my "type-of-tree-that-George-Washington-chopped-down," for an online post.  This article is from Tuesday's U.S. News Online.  Thank you for your time. Nowwwww fight.

cui bono?

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Re: 'Aggressive Racial Preferences'
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2006, 05:07:20 PM »

you know this'll start a fight  8)
I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality...  I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word - -Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King

cui bono?

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Re: Law Firm 'Aggressive Racial Preferences'
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2006, 10:36:02 PM »
This is my first post, and I found this article interesting:
 http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/leoblog/archives/060620/law_firms_and_the_downside_of.htm

I have no intentions of inciting an online debate, but I could care less.  Actually, post some acerbic diatribes; online fights of all partisanships humor me.  I also want to pop my "type-of-tree-that-George-Washington-chopped-down," for an online post.  This article is from Tuesday's U.S. News Online.  Thank you for your time. Nowwwww fight.


u didn't have to delete though.   :-\
I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality...  I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word - -Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King

mivida2k

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Re: Law Firm 'Aggressive Racial Preferences'
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2006, 03:45:40 PM »



Sander has been working on questions of social and economic inequality for nearly all of his career.  He was born in Washington, D.C., but spent most of his childhood in small towns in northwest Indiana.  After earning a B.A. in Social Studies at Harvard, Sander in 1978 joined the federal Vista program and worked for a small neighborhood housing group on Chicago's south side.  While organizing tenant unions and building receiverships, he was deeply impressed with the work of the South Shore Bank, an experimental, community-development bank owned by churches and foundations.  Sander secured funding from three federal agencies and, with the Woodstock Institute, completed the first detailed study of the bank.  South Shore Bank was widely imitated as an instrument for community revitalization in other urban areas over the next two decades.

Sander attended graduate school at Northwestern University from 1983 to 1988, earning degrees in law (J.D., 1988) and economics (M.A. 1985, Ph.D., 1990). In an his law review comment and his dissertation, Sander sought to understand why fair housing laws had seemingly produced widespread integration in some American metropolitan areas, but very little integration in most.  During much of this period, Sander served on the board of the Rogers Park Tenants Committee, and worked on the election effort and subsequent transition team of Harold Washington, Chicago’s first black mayor.

In 1989, Sander joined the faculty of the UCLA School of Law. During this period, he continued his work on housing segregation, but also pursued two new interests:  the reasons behind the American legal profession’s explosive growth since the mid-1960s, and the structure and effects of law school admissions policies.  With Kris Knaplund, he published in 1995 the first comparative evaluation of academic support programs used in legal education.  After California voters approved Propostion 209 in 1996 – banning the use of race in various government programs, including admissions at the University of California – Sander successfully argued for the adoption of class-based preferences in the law school’s admissions, and published a study on the results of this experiment in 1997.

During the 1990s, Sander was involved in several Los Angeles civic initiatives.  He served as President of the Fair Housing Congress of Southern California from 19984 to 1996; founded the Fair Housing Institute in 1996, and helped the City of Los Angeles design and implement in 1997 what was, at the time, the nation's most ambitious living wage law.  Sander also persuaded regional authorities to develop outreach programs that sharply increased local usage of the Earned Income Tax Credit, generating tens of millions of dollars annually for LA's poorest working families.

Sander was one of seven UCLA faculty members and staff who launched the Program in Public Interest Law and Policy, which created a distinct curriculum aimed at public interest students.  From 1998 to 2004, Sander helped to steer the "After the JD" study, the first national panel study of law school graduates.  In 1998-99, Sander and others at the School of Law launched the Empirical Research Group (ERG), an entity designed to help faculty members undertake ambitious empirical projects and introduce more quantitative and methodological sophistication into their policy-related work.

In 2004, Sander published a comprehensive study of affirmative action in American law schools, focusing particularly on the ways in which large preferences imposed unexpected but substantial costs on their intended beneficiaries.

Sander teaches courses in Property, Quantitative Methods, Urban Housing, and Policy Analysis.  He is married to astrophysicist Fiona Harrison, and has a son, Robert.  He lives in the Los Feliz neighborhood of Los Angeles.

More information about Sander and his research is available at the faculty webpage: http://www.law.ucla.edu/sander/
The president's approval rating has dropped to 33 percent, matching his low in May. His handling of nearly every issue, from the Iraq war to foreign policy, contributed to the president's decline around the nation, even in the Republican-friendly South.

cui bono?

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Re: Law Firm 'Aggressive Racial Preferences'
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2006, 03:47:19 PM »



Sander has been working on questions of social and economic inequality for nearly all of his career.  He was born in Washington, D.C., but spent most of his childhood in small towns in northwest Indiana.  After earning a B.A. in Social Studies at Harvard, Sander in 1978 joined the federal Vista program and worked for a small neighborhood housing group on Chicago's south side.  While organizing tenant unions and building receiverships, he was deeply impressed with the work of the South Shore Bank, an experimental, community-development bank owned by churches and foundations.  Sander secured funding from three federal agencies and, with the Woodstock Institute, completed the first detailed study of the bank.  South Shore Bank was widely imitated as an instrument for community revitalization in other urban areas over the next two decades.

Sander attended graduate school at Northwestern University from 1983 to 1988, earning degrees in law (J.D., 1988) and economics (M.A. 1985, Ph.D., 1990). In an his law review comment and his dissertation, Sander sought to understand why fair housing laws had seemingly produced widespread integration in some American metropolitan areas, but very little integration in most.  During much of this period, Sander served on the board of the Rogers Park Tenants Committee, and worked on the election effort and subsequent transition team of Harold Washington, Chicago’s first black mayor.

In 1989, Sander joined the faculty of the UCLA School of Law. During this period, he continued his work on housing segregation, but also pursued two new interests:  the reasons behind the American legal profession’s explosive growth since the mid-1960s, and the structure and effects of law school admissions policies.  With Kris Knaplund, he published in 1995 the first comparative evaluation of academic support programs used in legal education.  After California voters approved Propostion 209 in 1996 – banning the use of race in various government programs, including admissions at the University of California – Sander successfully argued for the adoption of class-based preferences in the law school’s admissions, and published a study on the results of this experiment in 1997.

During the 1990s, Sander was involved in several Los Angeles civic initiatives.  He served as President of the Fair Housing Congress of Southern California from 19984 to 1996; founded the Fair Housing Institute in 1996, and helped the City of Los Angeles design and implement in 1997 what was, at the time, the nation's most ambitious living wage law.  Sander also persuaded regional authorities to develop outreach programs that sharply increased local usage of the Earned Income Tax Credit, generating tens of millions of dollars annually for LA's poorest working families.

Sander was one of seven UCLA faculty members and staff who launched the Program in Public Interest Law and Policy, which created a distinct curriculum aimed at public interest students.  From 1998 to 2004, Sander helped to steer the "After the JD" study, the first national panel study of law school graduates.  In 1998-99, Sander and others at the School of Law launched the Empirical Research Group (ERG), an entity designed to help faculty members undertake ambitious empirical projects and introduce more quantitative and methodological sophistication into their policy-related work.

In 2004, Sander published a comprehensive study of affirmative action in American law schools, focusing particularly on the ways in which large preferences imposed unexpected but substantial costs on their intended beneficiaries.

Sander teaches courses in Property, Quantitative Methods, Urban Housing, and Policy Analysis.  He is married to astrophysicist Fiona Harrison, and has a son, Robert.  He lives in the Los Feliz neighborhood of Los Angeles.

More information about Sander and his research is available at the faculty webpage: http://www.law.ucla.edu/sander/


well done- I read his crappy bio b4.  cant stand him
I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality...  I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word - -Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King

mivida2k

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Re: Law Firm 'Aggressive Racial Preferences'
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2006, 06:30:14 PM »
Well I plan to interview him for my thesis.  Let ya know how that goes.
The president's approval rating has dropped to 33 percent, matching his low in May. His handling of nearly every issue, from the Iraq war to foreign policy, contributed to the president's decline around the nation, even in the Republican-friendly South.

cui bono?

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Re: Law Firm 'Aggressive Racial Preferences'
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2006, 06:30:46 PM »
Well I plan to interview him for my thesis.  Let ya know how that goes.

REALLY??  word i would love to be a fly on that wall!
I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality...  I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word - -Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King

Miss P

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Re: Law Firm 'Aggressive Racial Preferences'
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2006, 07:45:55 PM »
I don't know why I am deciding to take this flame seriously, but here are a few initial thoughts on Sander's new study.  (It's hard to make deeper arguments without reading the article, which isn't released yet.)

1. Where does Sander get the idea that LS grades are the best predictor -- or even a single very good predictor -- of performance as an attorney?  While I'm sure this is possible, I haven't ever read a study that suggests that grades alone account for law firm performance, and I think a lot of the things that make a good firm lawyer (networking, client relations, negotiation skills, relationships with superiors, grooming and etiquette), etc. have nothing to do with getting good grades.  (For the sake of this argument, I'm assuming that everyone who graduates in the top 2/3 or so of an elite LS class has the minimum requisite writing skills and legal know-how to push paper around correctly.)

2. How does he establish the link between grades and/or poor performance as attorneys and black attorneys' departures from the firms?  I can think of myriad alternate explanations (hypothetical) for leaving, e.g.:

a. Firms are inhospitable and racist places: there is an old boy's network in place that makes it hard to get good assignments, etc., and firm culture pretty much sucks for anyone who is not white and male (NOTE for Breadboy: this can be a matter of perception and still have an impact on black attorneys' feelings about their employment at the firm);

b. Due to racial and cultural biases, black attorneys receieve worse performance reviews/raises or are promoted to partnership later than white and other attorneys;

c. Due to racial and cultural biases, white attorneys are routinely rewarded for mediocre performance and  have little incentive to leave;

d. Black attorneys leave firms earlier or more often to become professors or take other desirable positions (perhaps even due partly to affirmative action in the academic and other employment markets);

e. Black attorneys leave to set out in solo practice more often than attorneys of other races for some reason;

f. Black attorneys leave to join public interest organizations more often than attorneys of other races.

3. Does Sander discuss the grades of white attorneys who leave the firms (and are they low?) and black attorneys who stay (are they high)?  Are the experiences of black attorneys with good grades substantially different from those with low grades?  Are the experiences of white attorneys with low grades similar to those of black attorneys with low grades?

4. If grades are really a factor in terms of people's making it up the law-firm track, bonuses, etc., are they a factor because of the performance and skills of the attorneys or because people who are likely to get good grades (good looking people, tall people, thin people, persistent people, people who know how to kiss ass, etc., etc.) the same people who are likely to receive positive affirmation -- not based on merit -- in the firm?

These are just my first-blush thoughts.  I'm sure there are other things that would really drive me crazy about this article if I could read it!

EDIT to add one more issue:

Sander's whole thing is about the supposed mismatch of black students to law schools where their "entry credentials" are lower than the average white student's "entry credentials."  His proposed remedy is to send black students to lower-ranked schools where their "credentials" are more mainstream, which he thinks will allow them to get better law school grades.  (I have written elsewhere about what bunk I think this is.)  Is he suggesting in this article that firms would do better to recruit students from these lower-ranked schools with better grades?  Otherwise, what is the reward to black students for choosing to go to lower-ranked school?  And who on earth thinks that Skadden and Cravath are or ever will be knocking the doors down at Seton Hall and Rutgers-Camden.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

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shaz

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Re: Law Firm 'Aggressive Racial Preferences'
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2006, 08:43:28 PM »
(Sander himself, by the way, has a half-black son and is no conservative.)

LMFAO!!!





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Miss P

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Re: Law Firm 'Aggressive Racial Preferences'
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2006, 08:44:36 PM »
(Sander himself, by the way, has a half-black son and is no conservative.)

LMFAO!!!

"I have black friends!  I even made it with a black lady once!"  :D
That's cool how you referenced a case.

Quote from: archival
I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.