Is your JD reallly worthless if your not top 10% at a top 15 law school??

[tvw74]

after reading blogs like  http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/display.php?id=34054

http://temporaryattorney.blogspot.com/

http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/

All of these blogs paint an extremely dismal picture for 90% of grads coming from nearly every school that is not in the top 10 or 15.
I have to wonder if what these people are saying is really accurate or not or if these are just a few people who graduated at the bottom of their classes and didnt try to use the career services at their school, and are now stuck doing temp document review. I could be wrong and maybe its nearly impossible to get a decent 100K job from a school in the top 100 and outside the top 10, but something seems strange when i read these blogs. I mean take a school like cardozo, or fordham, or washington U in st louis. top20ish top 30ish. all post median salaries in the 100K range or a little more. yes the 1op 10% of the class will do well, but what about a guy in the middle of the road at these schools, or maybe lower 25th percent of his class. do these people just get no jobs?? what kind of jobs do they get??.
Im starting to think that unless i get into a top 10 school, which wont be easy for me, mayybe cornell, and mayybe northwestern though its doubtful; perhaps i shouldnt goto a school unless i get a full ride, or unless i can come out with less that 20K in debt ( w/ a big scholarship)

is anyone else having similar thoughts?

[bigs5068]

No it's not worthless you go to law school if you want to be a lawyer.  People on those sites just female dog and moan about things, but ask yourself would you want to hire someone who sits and complains about how unfair everything is? Answer is probably not and that is why the people who write on that blog say such terrible things about law school. 

On the flip side does every one with a J.D. make millions of dollars no, not by a long shot. A law degree is not the path to guaranteed riches, but in reality there is no guaranteed path to riches no matter what you do, because if there was everybody would be doing it. If you are going to law school simply for money don't go if you could see yourself being a lawyer and enjoying it go.

[tvw74]

i guess i just dont want to end up doing document review or being a "temp". i want a real legal job, not necessarily biglaw 160K, but 80-100K and something that I'm passionate about doing whether it be IP law, real estate law or whatever i find the most intesting in law school after reading 100000 cases. if its farfetched to think that i can achieve that without going to harvard or duke, and without being top 10% of my class, i dont know if i want to take that risk...

also, does getting a JD/MBA help distinguish you from that much, or is it just "over-qualification" for most legal jobs as they say.. I like the idea of JD/MBA because it offers flexibility, and i know that at some point i want to own my own business.

[BikePilot]

Look up the sorts of places where you might want to work and see where they are doing most of their hiring.  Realize that the job market has been going down hill the past few years and '06 hires won't be representative of current hires, but you might at least get in the ball park.

[bigs5068]

There is no guarantee of anything no matter what school you go to. At my tier 4 there are plenty of successful alumni that have great legal jobs. However, there are people that don't have great jobs either and even some who didn't pass the bar and that happens at every school not even Harvard or Yale have 100% passage rates.

Certainly going to Harvard or Duke etc will present a lot more opportunities, but odds are you won't be in the top 10% no offense to you, but at any law school 100% of the students think they will be in the top 10% and if your smart enough to be considering Harvard or Duke I imagine you can do that math and see how that works out.

Honestly, it is law school and it is a risk, but there is 0% chance you will work as a lawyer doing anything unless you go to law school. The reality is no degree and no school is going to guarantee you a job and certainly not the exact job you want. However, education certainly improves your chances of doing the type of work you want and if you want to be a real estate lawyer then you should go to law school, work in a real estate law clinic, and get internships with real estate attorneys. Even if you do all those things there is no guarantee you will get a job as a real estate attorney, but that is certainly the best way to become a real estate attorney.

[Thane Messinger]

i guess i just dont want to end up doing document review or being a "temp". i want a real legal job, not necessarily biglaw 160K, but 80-100K and something that I'm passionate about doing whether it be IP law, real estate law or whatever i find the most intesting in law school after reading 100000 cases. if its farfetched to think that i can achieve that without going to harvard or duke, and without being top 10% of my class, i dont know if i want to take that risk...

also, does getting a JD/MBA help distinguish you from that much, or is it just "over-qualification" for most legal jobs as they say.. I like the idea of JD/MBA because it offers flexibility, and i know that at some point i want to own my own business.

Believe it or not, but document reviews come with the territory for big law jobs as well.  One key to all of your factors is a simple question:  how much do you truly want to practice law?  If the answer is "absolutely, positively," and if your efforts further that, then you will be able to do well.  Certainly, the law school is a factor . . . but it's not the only one.  Being in the top 2% at a T3-4 will not be hugely different from being at the bottom of a T1, especially in this market.  The key, again, is to care, and to follow up that care with careful study (not what everyone else is doing, but those practices that will help you in your final exams).

As to an MBA/JD, as it happens I did the MBA as well.  I love business, and I enjoy the business side of law.  To me these are two sides of the same coin.  But . . . an MBA is not required to practice law, and it's not required to do well.  The question to ask yourself is:  "What part of business or law is it that attracts you the most?"  Depending upon your answer, the answer to the degree(s) might be a straight JD, a combined JD/MBA, or just the MBA.  Don't go to one because of the prestige of the letters.  Rather, think about it from the standpoint of what it is that you REALLY like doing.  What really turns you on?  (Er, in terms of earning a living?)

[tvw74]

I am a studio art major for one, just throwing that out there. not sure if its even likely at all that i will be accepted into any schools MBA program especially straight form undergrad, but i like business and ive always liked law. i listen to supreme court oral arguments on my IPOD during my 2 4 hour studio classes each week. IP law seems nice too but i am an art major and employers like to see engineering or science in undergrad for that. art law interests me but i dont know much about it, and having an art degree doesnt seem like it would help me in that much, art degree= worthless in my opinion. i know at some point in my life i want to start my own business, might decide i want to do it right out of law school, maybe not, maybe i want to practice for a while and get a good legal background for it/build some clients, learn about how the world works from a legal standpoint; at least moreso than i do now. maybe corporate law, maybe not. but a JD/mba from what i have learned can, not always, set you apart, and i think the mba is nice to have if i want to start my own thing, or maybe go in with a few others who might not be impressed with a studio art degree in and of itself. woudlnt consider myself smart enough to be considering harvard or duke realistically, if i make a top 15 school it miiiiight be cornell in which case id go. if im lucky ill be deciding between a near full ride at a 60-70ish school or a spot in a top 15 at full price. other than one of those options, i feel like the risk is not worth it, based on what i have read.

[BikePilot]

Virtually all MBA programs either explicitly or implicitly require substantive work experience.  Maybe do something for a few years then apply, perhaps for a jd/mba?

[nerfco]

Virtually all MBA programs either explicitly or implicitly require substantive work experience.  Maybe do something for a few years then apply, perhaps for a jd/mba?

This is especially true of good/worthwhile MBA programs. An MBA from a bad school is worth very little.