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Author Topic: terrible LSAT history.......  (Read 2030 times)

Thane Messinger

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Re: terrible LSAT history.......
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2010, 04:37:29 AM »
Frankly, I don't think you even need to explain the difference. Obviously, something went differently.
Assuming your GPA is in line with that score, you are virtually guaranteed admission to a T10 school.


Good qualifiers.  In your application, schools are looking at LSAT and GPA, in that order, and then all of the soft factors (personal statement, LORs, URM, exceptional circumstances, etc.)  What you've posed is a wrinkle in the first criterion, and so you do need to be careful.  But, if all else is stunning . . . and it does need to be exceptionally well done for a top school . . . you've a very good shot.

(Important point:  while it's easy to see an excellent score as all-but-a-shoo-in for a top school, in fact some of the biggest disappointments--a rejection from a school for which one is well-qualified or even above-average--comes with basic mistakes.)

To all, a 170+ is a possibility for you.  Really.

Go get 'em!  = :  )

LawyerMD

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Re: terrible LSAT history.......
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2010, 05:17:22 PM »
Actually on second thought I concur with nealric and say that you may not even need to explain the lower score. I am sure the standard reason they get for a differential of about 10 points is I studied harder, I was better prepared, and more familiar with the exam, and this is self-explanatory and doesnt need an explanation. Clearly you did better on the second test. Its not like the point differential was 20-30 points where you would need an explanation.

I would caution you on explaining the other two. I really dont think its necessary and may even sound like your making excuses (which are totally valid- ie swine flu :) I just dont think the adcoms want to read the excess details of why you cancelled and were absent on your tests.

I just am very cautious about these "explanations."When I was applying to med school there was no such thing. If you didnt cut the MCAT score the first time, you just studied harder, did more tests, and did it again, and obviously scored higher because you were  better prepared. THere was no such thing as an addendum to explain a lower score unless there was some ridiculous discrepancy and even then, quite frankly, if I was on an adcom, Id rather not read an explanation then to have to read one on how you got swine flu and were quarantined. :) no offense. although true, it may be better just to not give a reason at all. Adcoms know that most people cancel not because they got sick etc but because they felt they choked on the test and their performance was actually worse than other diagnostics.

It is interesting that you scored better on the Feb administration. People on this board complained that the Feb test is hardest of all but to be honest, I found the test to be much more doable than the Dec test which I found more difficult.

Also for the schools that you have not been officially rejected from yet, I would strongly consider sending them or making them aware of your newest LSAT score. Many schools consider Feb LSAT scores. In fact, I am applying only with the Feb LSAT score.

Good luck!

Thane Messinger

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Re: terrible LSAT history.......
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2010, 07:59:56 PM »
Actually on second thought I concur with nealric and say that you may not even need to explain the lower score. I am sure the standard reason they get for a differential of about 10 points is I studied harder, I was better prepared, and more familiar with the exam, and this is self-explanatory and doesnt need an explanation. Clearly you did better on the second test. Its not like the point differential was 20-30 points where you would need an explanation.

I would caution you on explaining the other two. I really dont think its necessary and may even sound like your making excuses (which are totally valid- ie swine flu :) I just dont think the adcoms want to read the excess details of why you cancelled and were absent on your tests.

I just am very cautious about these "explanations."When I was applying to med school there was no such thing. If you didnt cut the MCAT score the first time, you just studied harder, did more tests, and did it again, and obviously scored higher because you were  better prepared. THere was no such thing as an addendum to explain a lower score unless there was some ridiculous discrepancy and even then, quite frankly, if I was on an adcom, Id rather not read an explanation then to have to read one on how you got swine flu and were quarantined. :) no offense. although true, it may be better just to not give a reason at all. Adcoms know that most people cancel not because they got sick etc but because they felt they choked on the test and their performance was actually worse than other diagnostics.


Nealric & LawyerMD make good points, and this can indeed be a tricky area, depending upon your other factors, the admissions policies at that school, and, well, luck.  There's a strong argument to be made for simply emphasizing the positive and letting the chips fall where they may, betting that the high score will be the one used and the earlier/other ones fade to insignificance.  I'll contact one of my, er, contacts to see if I can get an inside scoop.

Thane Messinger

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Re: terrible LSAT history.......
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2010, 03:27:17 PM »
Nealric & LawyerMD make good points, and this can indeed be a tricky area, depending upon your other factors, the admissions policies at that school, and, well, luck.  There's a strong argument to be made for simply emphasizing the positive and letting the chips fall where they may, betting that the high score will be the one used and the earlier/other ones fade to insignificance.  I'll contact one of my, er, contacts to see if I can get an inside scoop.


An update:  I've gotten back a response, and have two more I'm waiting from from top 10 deans.  Will wait until I have the fuller picture before posting.

catimini

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Re: terrible LSAT history.......
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2010, 10:43:48 PM »
Nealric & LawyerMD make good points, and this can indeed be a tricky area, depending upon your other factors, the admissions policies at that school, and, well, luck.  There's a strong argument to be made for simply emphasizing the positive and letting the chips fall where they may, betting that the high score will be the one used and the earlier/other ones fade to insignificance.  I'll contact one of my, er, contacts to see if I can get an inside scoop.


An update:  I've gotten back a response, and have two more I'm waiting from from top 10 deans.  Will wait until I have the fuller picture before posting.

Thank you so much. I appreciate your help. As an aside, I graduated from a foreign university, my gpa is 3.65, and I have some softs, but not extraordinary. I am Korean, which, I don't think can be classified as URM, I speak fluent French and have a few softs related to that. I was accepted at Fordham for fall 2010 with the 163, so I am guessing either my personal statement or softs have played a role.

cooleylawstudent

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Re: terrible LSAT history.......
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2010, 06:20:35 PM »
Korean should count as a URM since it basicly means any one who's not a non-hispanic white male of christian heterosexuality.

Thane Messinger

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Re: terrible LSAT history.......
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2010, 01:08:59 PM »
Life is rather busy in law schools now, of course, and so I'll go ahead to post the initial response from the inside.  (For all, it can be useful to put yourself in the mindset of the admissions office.  These are regular people, many of whom are just a few years out of law school themselves.  They do understand the many questions, and are generally willing to address any specific questions.  One must take care, of course, but absent a real skeleton, the answers are usually fairly straightforward.)

This is from an insider (but not a dean) at a law school not in the top 10.  Here it is:


At the law school at which I am employed, it seems that the admissions committee pays little to no attention to the cancelled or missed LSAT attempts.  A nationally ranked institution, however, may wish to know what the issues were, and some students choose to attach a short paragraph-long addemdum to their applications to explain the issues.  
 
Something like... "On X date, you will notice that I cancelled my LSAT test attempt.  The venue in which I took the test had band tryouts that day, and there were literally trumpts blaring right outside the windows.  As such, I was so distracted and irritated, that I left at some point in the middle of the test in favor of cancelling my score and venturing a try on another day.  (Yes, true story...)  Thereafter, on X date, you will notice that I missed the LSAT test entirely.  On that occasion, I (either had the flu/strep throat/allergic reaction to a bee sting or) missed the flight home from Christmas break (due to excessive snow)where I was visiting my parents in the Northeast.  By the time I got a flight home, I had missed the test window and had to yet again miss the test time and reschedule once more.  On X date, I was at last able to take the LSAT one more time.  You will note a marked improvement best explained by missing those two test dates in between my first and final attempt.  During that nearly year long duration, I continued to study, learn new tips and tactics, and was so pleased that I could sit for the test that time, my persistence is revealed in my final score."  [Thane note:  if this were the sentence actually used I would specify "...my final score of 174." to emphasize that score.]

As for explaining the different scores, again, the law school at which I am employed, it seems that the admissions committee pays little to no attention to the why, just to the numbers themselves.  Again, a nationally ranked school might look for more, and perhaps the addendum description above will be enough, or the student may wish to go into a little more detail in describing the new study philosophy or habits that may have led to the higher score.  
 
Finally, here, we only take the highest LSAT score into consideration and do not average any prior test scores.  I am under the impression that the American Bar Association suggested that its accredited law schools all only take the highest score, but I could be wrong.  It certainly wouldn't hurt to give the admissions offices at the schools this student has in mind a quick call or check the schools' websites to be certain they do not average.  A word of caution on that note, though, is that the schools can all see the prior test score dates and scores, if any.  As such, the scores will be revealed but not necessarily averaged in.  Some admissions committees may see the lower score and wonder if the higher score is a fluke, whereas other committees may see the higher score and think "this student worked hard to achieve a higher score - that shows dedication."  It depends on the uppity-ness factors, I guess.  [Emphasis mine.]

catimini

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Re: terrible LSAT history.......
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2010, 11:02:54 PM »
 I don't know how to thank you. Good to hear from an insider. For the long sample addendum you wrote, of course, I will not be using these exact excuses since then I would be lying, but I understand what you are trying to say and I thank you for giving me a clearer view of how an addendum should be written. I will definitely keep your advices in mind when applying this fall.

Thane Messinger

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Re: terrible LSAT history.......
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2010, 11:39:05 PM »
I don't know how to thank you. Good to hear from an insider. For the long sample addendum you wrote, of course, I will not be using these exact excuses since then I would be lying, but I understand what you are trying to say and I thank you for giving me a clearer view of how an addendum should be written. I will definitely have your advices in mind when applying this fall.


You are most welcome.  And, yes, any examples were just that.  Every part of an application should be perfectly done, and perfectly specific to you and your situation.  Admissions officers see a million (well, at least hundreds) of whatever it is that is of concern, so do be accurate and persuasive . . . two rather important qualifiers.

Best of luck!