Florida Coastal School of Law Visit and Trip Report - March 11, 2005 - Part 1

[jeflord]

Note - This will likely be pretty long-winded and detailed.

I left out of snowy northeast Tennessee at about 7:30 AM on Thursday morning headed for sunny Jacksonville Florida.  This is my first law school visit - to Florida Coastal School of Law.  I am accompanied by my lovely wife who has applied to University of North Florida - she is on a similar recon mission.

The drive takes just about 8 hours on what becomes - the further south we go - a very beautiful day.

We arrive in Jacksonville around 4:00 PM and head downtown to cruise past Alltel Stadium and to get a closeup glimpse of the bigger buildings.  A wrong turn thanks to my exceptional navigational capabilites led us to an upramp across the St. Johns River (which splits the city) and onto the Mathews Bridge (scroll to bottom) http://www.jacksonville.com/discover/2005/stories/011205/com_17624389.shtml.  This is definitely a big ol' bridge.  It got our attention.

We were soon down on the other side and working our way through rush hour traffic.  I thought that the first stop should be to locate Florida Coastal and try to gain my bearings.  After a couple of wrong turns I finally stopped and purchased a street map of Jacksonville at a BP station.  Note:  This city is biiiiiiggggg.  Large as in sprawling out all over god's creation.  The map is big.  Fold it up to the area you are looking at before getting back in the car, unless your SO can see to drive through street maps.

I found the school, and also discovered a key fact about navigating East Jacksonville.

The east side has 2 principal east-west roads, and 2 north-south roads.  East/West are Beach Boulevard and Atlantic boulevard.  North South are University and Southside.  Start with that knowledge and work everything into a grid and that creates a pretty good starting point for getting your bearings.

http://www.jacksonville.com/discover/2005/stories/011205/com_17624620.shtml

I saw the school and drove around the campus (description later - in chronological order) and then headed off to find my room at the Homestead Suites.

First of all, I don't recommend that you stay at the Homestead Suites Skinner.  The room was small, clean and did not include any maid service.  The bed was something akin to sleeping on a wooden pallet.  It was cheap, but it sucked.  I have grown spoiled from staying at nicer places, so it might not be that bad, but go somewhere that you can get a good night’s sleep.  One odd story about this place – The queen bed only had 2 pillows, and I decided after the first night that 2 more pillows just might allow me to create the proper cushioning necessary to sleep more than 20 minutes at a time.  I went over to the office and asked if I could have a couple more.  The guy at the counter said yes and asked me to follow him.  We walked around to the back of the hotel and went into the laundry room.  I got to pick out my own pillows and pillow cases.  Just a little bit strange.

One last note – there are other places that are closer to the school that seemed nicer – as in better.  I am sure they are not that cheap (approx $30 or $40 per night via Travelocity) but you might find it makes for a better experience.

After checking in and unpacking we headed for the most important feature of the city – its beaches.  From out hotel it was about a 20 minute drive in pretty abominable rush-hour traffic – it maybe should have taken 10 minutes – but I probably didn’t go the fastest route, and we were driving slower than most of the rest of the traffic due to our unfamiliarity – and of course our pitiful gayness that caused us to be intimidated by the traffic.

The beaches are publicly accessible – with ample parking at 6:00 on Thursday evening.  Unlike say – Myrtle Beach, the hotels and properties along the coast don’t seem to own every available parking space.  Pretty much anybody could find a spot to park if you were willing to walk across a street or two.  In our case – we didn’t have to.  I parked right beside the public entrance and walked right out to the ocean.  It was really windy and cool.  The sun was near to setting or already had set.  The water had a choppy black look.  It was incredibly pretty – contrasting the clean sandy beaches against the angry looking water.  My wife got soaked playing chicken with the waves.  I ended up dry, as I have always been wary of sea hags dragging me down to a watery grave, and never once let down my guard.

More on the beaches later.

The area around the beaches consists of private homes, restaurants, large – lovely hotels, incredible looking condominiums, a few business offices, older hotels that appear a tad rundown when compared against the new construction.  My description is poor, but it seems like what it is, a little city.  It is myrtle beach without the pavilion and bumper to bumper traffic.  All of the touristy clubs and shops are not there.  It is just a really neat collection of homes and businesses and bars that would be really cool to live around.  That might not be so true at the peak of the summer season, but I don’t believe that you’d find this to be the typical tourist trap beach like Myrtle or Daytona.

After the beaches we headed back to better known territory.  We found the large Regency Square Mall – and the food court for a quick bite to eat.  This is where I noticed the first thing that caught my attention as being distinctly different from my home and other cities I am familiar with.  The food court place we chose for dinner had the same food court staff that are everywhere else in every mall in the country.  Only these teenagers provided great service and seemed to be actually interested in taking and cooking our orders.  It might have been because I was tired and looked like the devil (as I tend to if I don’t keep horns sanded down) or it might be because they are just not the same slacker kids that work in other malls.  I won’t spoil everything here – but I can only say that the people I met in Jacksonville – at the school – and everywhere else – were nice.  Not phony nice or extremely nice.  Just nice.  They got my orders correct.  They thanked me.  They held doors for me.  They seemed to not have a bad attitude about it, and it made every experience in Jacksonville better.  It was civility at its most mundane and unpretentious and it was a joy to my heart that such a thing still exists.

We went back to our room and settled in for a long – if not good night’s sleep.  9:00 PM bedtime.  I normally take Ambien, but decided not to bring it on this trip.  I fell asleep immediately and woke up after what seemed to my internal clock to be about 6 hours.  I looked at the clock and saw that I had actually been sleeping 2 hours.  The rest of the night consisted of 20 minute naps where I would be confronted with dreams that went something like this.

Crazy Uncle – “Yer gonna borry how much munnie to go be a lawyer?  That’s a terrible idea.  What’s your bachelors degree in?  Why don’t you go be a teacher?” I would wake up right before I would go hostile.

The other dream – if you are interested – is that I was outside a pretty apartment, well landscaped with tropical plants, but I can hear a lion coming for me, circling me and stalking me.  In my arms I am holding my wife’s cat Molly who is the wedding present from our 1st Christmas together.  The Lion would eat Molly – no doubt about it – so I have to figure how to run the 20 yards or so back to the apartment without getting killed or losing Molly.  My strategy involved punching it in its  nose, as it is impossible for any living creature to appreciate a punch to the nose.  Thank goodness the dream ended before I had to try my hand at fighting the King of the Jungle.  I am merely the Dork of the Discussion Board – but I’d make pretty good-eating.

Morning comes and we clean up nicely for an appointment at Leasing Jacksonville – a company committed to help find and meet the needs of future residents.  Wanda was the person we spoke with and she was pretty helpful.  – She came highly recommended.  She established our needs and gave us a variety of locations that would meet both price and size range.  We had time to visit one apartment complex prior to meeting at Florida Coastal.

We stopped at the very close-by Bentley Green which offers 1 bedroom apartments from $600 - $650 per month.  The community was pretty, and had 3 or 4 pools and a fitness center.  Bobby Moreno at this office is definitely a good resource at this property.904-731-8901 www.waldenmanagement.com.  This was a good place to look at for your first place.  The guy was nice and he golfcarted us around to see the sites.  We liked it and we liked him, but we have to make sure that we make the best decision possible.  Took his card and advertisment (he really is very professional and good).

But alas we were running late for our visit to FCSL.  We quickly found the right direction and managed to pull into campus 15 minutes early.  The walk into campus took approximately 10 seconds, as I found parking just by the door – there was more than one spot, but not many more.

[jeflord]

May I describe the campus for you?  It is in many ways as advertised.  It exists in 2 or 3 large buildings (2 story) that have a pretty routine business facade of bricks and right angles, minimal glass, but overall effective.  It is not ugly, it is just not pretty.  The space that they are dealing with does not lend itself to landscaping or innovative architecture.  The school is utilitarian.  The restrooms are clean.  The student body looks busy and cool and you sense the smell of relief that they are no longer part of the application/admissions process.  Their furtive looks advertise that they are past 1st year and that we don’t know nuthin’.  They are probably right.

Students and administrative personnel apologized for the building, but it was in good repair and put to use in good fashion.  No apology necessary in my opinion.  There are computers in the computer lab.  There are wireless internet connections in the library and also for outside in the car (as I understand it.  If this doesn’t work, I misheard) – sorry).

The good part – there is a central courtyard with tables and grass and shade that would make for an exceptionally good environment for studying, ice breaking, or planning out deployments and flanking maneuvers.  It is pretty and warm when not raining.

Tour
The tour began by finding and awkwardly standing outside of the Admissions office to announce that I had arrived as part of the pending tour.  I was quickly passed information about basic FAFSA award and loan information, but wouldn’t have any good information until I send in my deposits and letter of intent.  Nevertheless I got to meet Rita in Financial Aid and she was incredibly helpful at making me understand the process.  Her best advice was to call if I had any questions.  I will.

Break Area – Tiny, but they do have a small Atlanta Bread Company vending station.  I had a similar snack bar at undergraduate and it actually worked out well.

Derek Waynes took the lead on our tour.  Derek is a former law student who is currently pursuing a PHD.  He is a handsome man – well dressed and articulate.  He also is very enthusiastic.  We met in room 237 – which is a classroom.  We were quickly joined by Sarah Spear, Chief of Staff of the Student Bar Association.  She spoke eloquently about her experience at Florida Coastal School of Law.  By sticking to the high points Sarah was convincing that success at law school is directly attributed to the amount of effort applied.  The experience at law school is similarly weighted.  Sarah did not walk onto the campus with all of her positions and honors she has earned.  She has taken them home by hard work and effort.  She also indicated that networking with other law students and professors is a key component to the process of learning.  She welcomed us to email with questions – and I suppose her email is accessible at the Florida Coastal Web Page www.fcsl.edu

She suggested that everyone read “Gorilla Tactics for Getting the Legal Job of your Dreams”.  Sarah left and promised to rejoin us for questions later.  We were now led about the campus by Derek where we met what are arguably the most important members of the faculty and administration.  Among those we met and spoke with were Dean Peter Goplerud – Dean of the Law School.  Derek grabbed him as he was walking by in the hall and he answered a variety of questions about the law school’s new location (due in the next couple of years as I read the non-response)[he isn't able to disclose possible locations, as there are still negotiations in process].  But Dean Goplerud did indicate that the location should be made public later in the spring. Likely in the area closer to downtown is my best guess.  He is an interesting man, with a kind face and the businesslike approach that I had hoped to find at law school.

We also spoke briefly to several other instructors, specifically Nancy Hogshead-Makar who not only teaches law, but also has the opportunity to go home each day and see the 3 gold medals and 1 silver medal that she won as an Olympic swimmer.  She is tall, bright and has a cheerful look.  I gathered all that from just a few moments in her presence.  This is one of the instructors teaching some 1st year courses.  Good choice in my opinion.

We met Michael Orr, President of the SBA as he was moving from class to meeting.  He took the time to speak with us and offered opportunity to ask questions.  He advised that we take the law school experience seriously as it would ultimately mean success in a job search and in passing the bar.  He was a really good guy – heavy charisma with just a little odd streak.  Sort of like a young George Clooney.

The tour wrapped up and I said my goodbyes to the folks at FCSL.

Overall opinion at the end.

I finished up my day by going downtown to the Riverwalk – where they were having – totally unknown to me, a Beerfest.  For $20 from 6pm to 9pm you can eat and drink anything you want from over 50 vendors of beer and malt drinks, and a similar number of restaurants from the community.  The food was great.  The beer was better.  I tried more beers in 2 hours than I ever had in my life.  My favorite of the night?  Blue Moon.  I liked it in spite of myself.  That is great stuff.

My wife was pleased that I stopped drinking before I went outside and began calling out seahags for fisticuffs.  I was pleased that I was able to enjoy a vast quantity of samples of beer, almost all of which were excellent.

For the non beer drinkers, there was a product called 3 Sum that came in 4 flavors/colors.  Tropical theme but it was really good.  The name is a bit promiscuous, but the drink is solid.


My overall opinion of Jacksonville is that this is a Great Place to Live!

You can almost feel the money wafting in the air.  Progress is everywhere and it is a city growing and moving towards something more.  There is a city plan for growth and progress, and that plan shows great possibilities of achieving success given the recent superbowl success and the new agreement to re-design the riverwalk.

Major highway projects for the southern part of the city are on the way, and everywhere I looked I saw success and commerce.

The military bases bring through military families and children, and with them a culture and sense of discipline that might be the cause of the good customer service and polite interaction with other people.

The Law School is a good fit for me.  It is a small school, and I have always done well in similar settings.  It is a school with a mission to improve its reputation through results.  It is a school with remarkable numbers on employability and bar passage.

Florida Coastal School of Law is a school that is rising.  The school's reputation and success depends on how well the Administration and Faculty perform.  It also depends on the successes of the students.  There is clearly a commitment by the Faculty and Staff to provide an opportunity for each student to achieve their own measure of success.

One more small note about Jacksonville - The Apartments – consider this – 1 bedroom, 1 bath, gated community, $600 - $625 per month, tennis courts, pools, workout room and equipment, car wash area, electronic intrusion alarms.  Landscaped like a tropical paradise.  Walking distance to groceries and other shopping.  15 minute commute to the school.

This was the least attractive option (appearance wise) we looked at and we’d move in in a moment.

I hope this is helpful, as it is clearly too long.

Feel free to PM or reply should you have further questions.

[rick8481]

Thanks for the in-depth report on Florida Coastal.  I have two friends down there right now that started in the spring.  I really found your post helpful.  Especially when you discussed the growth of the area.  I am somewhat concerned b/c of FCSL reputation, or lack thereof.  But ultimately, I believe that the region is going to need attys. as it grows and if the old addage about go to school where you want to practice is true, I really can't see any problems with FCSL on the practical side.  I also hope they finish that new campus soon. 

Let me ask you a question jeflord, during the campus visit, did they discuss recruitment in the area or anything related to working in Jax? 

Bottom line, I really like FCSL and I thank you for your post.

[maka nani]

Just wanted to add that I moved to FLA from New England tow years ago and was shocked that people at the Dunkin Donuts and other food service establishments actually SMILED and said THANK YOU...maybe it is a southern thing but I too was pleasantly surprised.   

[mjb691]

I lived in Jacksonville for many years (went to high school there, my parents live there, etc.), so I figured I throw out a few things about Jacksonville that might not be obvious in a quick tour.

1.) Cost of living is pretty cheap. A car is an absolute necessity, as the city is enormous (largest city in land area in the country). The beach is probably the nicest place to live, but also the priciest.

2.) The Landing on the river is the end all and be all of downtown (except for a couple of decent restaurants on the other side of the river). The center of gravity of the city is really the beach and the area near it (more or less where FC is)

3.) People with kids: the public schools in Jacksonville are terrible. If you live farther south along the beach near Ponte Vedra, you are in St. Johns County schools, which are much, much better (but also much more expensive housing prices). But, you are looking at a big-time commute, and traffic is pretty bad and getting worse.

Good luck.

Mike

[jeflord]

Thanks for the in-depth report on Florida Coastal.  I have two friends down there right now that started in the spring.  I really found your post helpful.  Especially when you discussed the growth of the area.  I am somewhat concerned b/c of FCSL reputation, or lack thereof.  But ultimately, I believe that the region is going to need attys. as it grows and if the old addage about go to school where you want to practice is true, I really can't see any problems with FCSL on the practical side.  I also hope they finish that new campus soon. 

Let me ask you a question jeflord, during the campus visit, did they discuss recruitment in the area or anything related to working in Jax? 

Bottom line, I really like FCSL and I thank you for your post.

Recruitment was discussed.  The two students who spoke with my group both had interviews as 2L.  Sarah Spear said, as I remember that she had interviewed with 7 firms (I won't swear to it, but that is what comes to mind).  These two students are elite for the school, so this might not be indicative for everybody.

Sarah Spear spoke quite a bit, as did the admissions person about a program where each incoming student is assigned an alumni advisor.  This is someone who is currently practicing law - as closely matched as possible to the desired geographic and specialization as possible.  This person will be able to act as a mentor, having recently been through the process of graduating and entering practice.

FCSL seems focused on improving their reputation by performance, i.e. bar passage rates and employment at 6 months.  Both figures are currently strong according to the information presented.

I hope that answers your question rick8481.

[LaneSwerver]

Thank you for the great report. FL Coastal is my top choice right now, barring an acceptance from a TX school. I'm going to try and visit them and St. Thomas (Miami) in early April. I'm torn because St. Thomas, while numbers-wise isn't up to par with FL Coastal, has student housing extraordinarily cheap. FL Coastal doesn't. Decisions, decisions.

[rick8481]

Thanks jeflord, you rock.

[leoladybug]

Jeflord...that was an awesome description.  I am going to Florida April 22 (after the deposit deadline is due) so this is extremely helpful. Maybe I will see you there this Fall!   Thanks so much!!

 

[aint mizbehavin]

Hi!  I'm new to this forum, and I'm interested in law school, too.  Great post on your visit to Florida Coastal! 

Did you happen to find out how many total students they have enrolled or how many they're planning to admit in the fall? I don't know if it's true, but I heard FC has about 1000 total students enrolled now and wants even more for next year.  That kinda worries me.  Don't want to be in a factory, you know.   Isn't it for profit?