The Howard Law/HBCU Law Schools Thread

[redemption]

I guess I came off poorly for taking exception to things OCD said. I'll try to provide a very short explanation for my feelings knowing some of you won't agree, and other won't care. All cycle long I have seen applicants such as John Galt, Annabel Lee, and Jason240, among many others, defend thier acceptances here, on LSN, and on XOXO. Many said they were "AA admits" because they had numbers below the median, or below those of all other admitted applicants. They used these numbers to tell fine students that they didn't belong; moreover, they would be destroyed on the battlefield. These same students appealed to their future classmates asking to be judged on their performance in law school. They said, rightly, that the LSAT is an imperfect predictor of first-year success, and that each person is entitled to their own destiny though statistics say numerous things.

On the other hand, we had someone like OCD. A fine student, I'm sure, and probably a really stand up guy, using his numbers to say he expects to finish a certain way because he will be attending Howard Law. While it is fine to project confidence, his comments bordered on hubris. He used the numbers of the Howard students to say he would beat them, much in the same way the trolls pushed our friends to the bottom of their respective law school classes because of their LSATs without taking a single note, working on a paper, or participating in a lecture. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. Howard, like any other law school, has a range of numbers for those admitted. Like we do not assume the 180's will dominate  the 174's at Harvard, we should not assume the 157 will dominate the 151's at Howard.

There are many people on this board applying to law school. Some of our friends on this board are applying to Howard for this fall. It bothers me when I see people saying things about them without really addressing them, simply because their numbers don't stack up. You'll be in class together. We all have wonderful acecdotes about people who do well in spite of poor grades, or those who fail out despite having 75% LSATS and superb GPA's. It is because of people like this that we take the exams, write papers, and compete for praise. The LSAT/GPA may get you in the class, but it doesn't decide your place in the class.

I realize many of you will disagree with me. That is fine. Maybe I don't make sense. That is fine, too. OCD, I apologize for what I said. I hope we can all put this behind us.

And this is exactly right, too.

There is a fine line between a realistic estimation of one's odds and hubris. It is not completely off-the-wall to read OCD's posts as having more than once crossed into the latter territory, even though it is possible that he did not intend them to come across that way.

If I hadn't been so lazy, I would have posted what you did at the time that you did so, George. I, for one, completely understand where you're coming from, and I agree with your analysis.

[jnc18]

I completely respect what you're saying, GJ.  And I agree to an extent.

At the same time,

1) I don't really believe OCD ever made the claims you refute.  I may be mistaken, but I don't recall him declaring that his numbers indicate he will be top of the class at Howard.  Don't recall him using words like "dominate."  He was saying that he probably has a better chance of being near the top of his class at Howard than at a school like Harvard or even GW.  I'd say the statement would apply to almost ANY student, which makes it devoid of arrogance in my opinion.  In other words, at any given level of achievement, one should expect a higher ranking at Howard than at Harvard.  To say otherwise, you have to make the argument that the Howard student body's overall achievement is relatively comparable to Harvard's.  

2) He never gave the impression that this was one of the primary motives behind his decision in the first place.  For those of us who have been in previous discussions with him, it seemed pretty absurd when you implied that he was "scared" of the more selective institutions.

[TopGunna]

Hi all,

I am still very of new to posting things, although I have been an avid reader of the posts on this portion of the site for a good month now.  I would just like to say that despite the written arguments and tendentious statements, I have received an amazing amount of information from your inputs into certain matters.  You have all eloquently stated your points and have argued valiantly.  No matter what school you represent or what your views on a particular institution is, one thing is certain, the people that died to get us where we are would be extremely proud of how far we have come.   

[John Galt]

Hi all,

I am still very of new to posting things, although I have been an avid reader of the posts on this portion of the site for a good month now.  I would just like to say that despite the written arguments and tendentious statements, I have received an amazing amount of information from your inputs into certain matters.  You have all eloquently stated your points and have argued valiantly.  No matter what school you represent or what your views on a particular institution is, one thing is certain, the people that died to get us where we are would be extremely proud of how far we have come.   

welcome to LSD!

[plaintext]

So GW was my original #1, but then Howard basically offered a full scholarship. The HBCU environment of Howard is attractive to me. I don't want to be the one black guy in all of my classes. Also, I hear that Howard gives merit scholarships to people placing in the top 50% of their class. On the other hand, would the GW degree (provided I do well enough) get me further job-wise? Would going to GW outweigh the Howard scholarship?

seriously dude.. I'd take no debt and Howard over $100k GW debt, with the caveat that you don't plan to practice law long-term.  Calculate the total debt, including interest and subtract that from what you need to retire... it isn't trivial.

The time value of money is significant.. I wish I had paid more attention to it at a younger age.  I started investing rather late (late 20s) but by doing so, my retirement is mostly covered.  Assuming todays value of money, $100k in your late 20s/early 30s will do it.

Let's say the worse case you graduated with zero debt from Howard but got a lesser paying job at $90k, versus a $125k job at GW but $100k in debt.  On that factor alone the Howard ride is far superior. Don't have a calculator, but my guess is it's at least a half a million dollars, assuming you're an aggressive investor.

The other thing to consider is these are only STARTING salaries.  After you get a few years of experience, the law school won't mean squat and assuming you have the same level of competence as if you had attended GW, lateral into the same firms.

Just an idea.. I'm not advocating it... but if I was black (which I am not), I'd pick the Howard option and seriously try to start a Beltway bandit company.  30% of fed contract (trillions) funds are reserved for small business, woman/minority owned, with the minority owned getting a huge boost..  the problem is finding like minded capable people willing to take that risk (race may be an impediment).  that's a shitload of money and you'll make more than most BIGLAW partners... network--network!

[THE BLUE SWEATER]

I completely respect what you're saying, GJ.  And I agree to an extent.

At the same time,

1) I don't really believe OCD ever made the claims you refute.  I may be mistaken, but I don't recall him declaring that his numbers indicate he will be top of the class at Howard.  Don't recall him using words like "dominate."  He was saying that he probably has a better chance of being near the top of his class at Howard than at a school like Harvard or even GW.  I'd say the statement would apply to almost ANY student, which makes it devoid of arrogance in my opinion.  In other words, at any given level of achievement, one should expect a higher ranking at Howard than at Harvard.  To say otherwise, you have to make the argument that the Howard student body's overall achievement is relatively comparable to Harvard's.  

2) He never gave the impression that this was one of the primary motives behind his decision in the first place.  For those of us who have been in previous discussions with him, it seemed pretty absurd when you implied that he was "scared" of the more selective institutions.

Thanks

Since everyone is dilly-dallying at the reasons why the thread has turned out the way it did, I can play Devil's Advocate.

The reason I believe that Muse is taking a stance against what OCD and Jay (not sure) had said lies somewhere in the earlier pages of this thread. I believe that Ocd was saying that his chances of graduating at the top of his class might be higher in Howard considering the numbers on display at Howard. This in itself is a very valid argument, unfortunately as always, we blacks tend to sugar-coat it a bit, especially when it comes to dignifying and supporting a HBCU such as HOward.

The fact of the matter is that the student body at Howard and Harvard are INDEED very different. Let's be truthful to ourselves, the highest LSAT score accepted at Howard is most likely the median LSAT score accepted at Harvard. As a result, it is logical and okay to be nervous at the thought that in a school like Harvard you could struggle compared to Howard, especially given LSACs research that indicates that LSATs do reflect abilities within Law school.

Saying you have a higher chance of graduating in the top of the class at Howard when compared to Harvard is very logical and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. You would deceive yourself if you think that you can give your fellow students at Harvard the same run for their money as you would students at Howard. I can completely see how a law school applicant would feel comfortable at getting into the top of the class at Howard compared to Harvard.

Thanks.

[John Galt]

Edited: I'm leaving it alone.

damn, i'm really curious to what could've made you edit a post. Thats unusual.

[THE BLUE SWEATER]

OCD's type=Compulsive supercompetive overachieveing jerk lol. No im tend to be pretty passive until Im called out or challenged. I would do worse at a law school where  wasnt challenged then one where I struggled to keep up. Pride issue.

[THE BLUE SWEATER]

I know you dont have to explain yourself its whatever man.

[The Rich]

Thats right ya boy i back in the building. Its been a minute and i had to take a break to jump off in this law school game but at a special request by the homegirl blk reign i decided to resurface and lace yall about the real about HUSL. As a original member of BLSD i feel its my duty to help with any question next years law students might have. I haven't read any of the other posts regarding the topic so i'll just adress the issues that came up for me last year. I was also faced with the dilemma of choosing HUSL over a majority school but i can tell you right now that i am 100% happy i made this choice. the environment at howard is all love and the family atmosphere is unique compared to any other law school. its definately competitive but far from cutthroat. i have people who go to majority schools and they always complainin to me about the high degree of individualism and how everybody steps over everybody to get ahead. it aint like that over here we sincerly want to see each other succeed and that really helpful in this beast called law school. Second, go to howard and you WILL get a good job. Everybody get jobs the networking here is crazy everytime i turn around there is some new recruitiing event or organizations doin interviews and hiring people on the spot. It lovely for real. my prof told me the other day the HUSL ranks #17 of all law schools in putting judges on the bench real talk. A lot of my profs are grads of the law school themselves and you know they want too see you do well. the reseources that you can take advatage here are incredible and our bar passage rate for NY is significantly higher than law schools across the nation including the ones in new york. like i said i think HUSL is the best law school for black students. if you get a chance you should come visit and experience the life for yourself. thats what sold me. if anybody got any other questions feel free to hit me

peace